COMPLETE Yamaha Trompete, Kornett & Flügelhorn Modell Liste

Welches sind die besten ?

Moderator: Die Moderatoren

AlfaFreak
NormalPoster
Beiträge: 27
Registriert: Freitag 8. April 2011, 06:21
Meine Instrumente ..: Bach Philladelphia Custom
Yamaha YFH-6310Z
Yamaha YTR-9610

COMPLETE Yamaha Trompete, Kornett & Flügelhorn Modell Liste

Beitrag von AlfaFreak »

Hi People,

I've decided to create a spreadsheet that is public on google to list ALL known models of Yamaha Trumpets, Cornets & Flugel horns.

COMPLETE Yamaha Trumpet, Cornet & Flugel Horn Model List

I've used the info from above (Japan Yamaha rip), brochures I've collected acorss the years, eBay (various international sites), and I've even started to contact the various Yamaha Alteliers across the world. Once I've collected and cleaned up all this info I'll also create a form to submit model and serial numbers to try and nail production dates and locations.

All the info I have collected so far has already raised a few questions and I'll be asking for help with these anomilies soon. Whilst not included on the spread sheet yet, I'm also trying to work out which models were/are available in specific markets. eg James Morrison model is only available in Australia. Also, were certain models only made in one location, Japan, Indonesia or USA or in muliple locations.

I actually had the pleasure of touring the Hamamatsu Factory (Japan) in 2006 whilst on tour with Australian trumpeter and all round brass player James Morrison. We were guided by Bob Malone, and with James got to watch the testing of several prototypes etc that wil probably never see the light of day. Having seen for myself, I am completely certain Yamaha knows everything about every model, serial number etc that has left their factory. I can onlyimagine that they have no intent of making the entire collection public. The ammount of engineers they have working on development as well as craftsmen like Bob making their designs reality is amazing.

The spreadsheet is still not complete as I've got to add a few more models and clean it up further still.

W-77 - Yamaha - Custom Trumpets (c1982)
W-120 - Yamaha - Trumpets - Australia (c1987)
W-190R3 -Yamaha - Trumpets - Australia (c1994-97)
W-200RII - Yamaha - Wind Instruments - Australia (c1994-97)
W-215 - Yamaha - Trumpets - Australia (c2004)
W-XXX - Yamaha - Allegro Range (c20xx)
W-215R5 - Yamaha - Trumpets (c2007)
W-215R6 - Yamaha - Trumpets (c2010)
W-XXX - Yamaha - Trumpets - Germany (January 2009)
W-233 - Yamaha - Trumpet YTR-8310Z (c2010)
W-244R - Yamaha - Xeno Artist Series Trumpets (c2010?)

Entschuldigung für mein schlechtes Deutsch (Google Translate)


Cheers from Australia
Benutzeravatar
Bixel
Unverzichtbar
Beiträge: 6415
Registriert: Samstag 27. Dezember 2008, 08:30
Meine Instrumente ..: bezahlt

Re: COMPLETE Yamaha Trompete, Kornett & Flügelhorn Modell Li

Beitrag von Bixel »

Wow, this is good stuff - thank you very much!

My Yamaha trumpet is missing on that list as it is the gold plated "Limited Centennial Edition" (engraved on the bell) of the YTR 6335, built in 1987, of course, sn. 002688.
Too, I own (but don't use) the original case in mint condition: fine bordeaux red leather with gold plated (I assume) hardware.

The horn still is almost like new, never has been overhauled even though I use it every day - the best horn I've ever played so far (haven't played that awful many horns, to be honest).
Why spend much time trying other horns when you feel you already have found yours?

:D :gut:
.
Rausgehen ist wie Fenster Aufmachen, nur viel krasser.
AlfaFreak
NormalPoster
Beiträge: 27
Registriert: Freitag 8. April 2011, 06:21
Meine Instrumente ..: Bach Philladelphia Custom
Yamaha YFH-6310Z
Yamaha YTR-9610

Re: COMPLETE Yamaha Trompete, Kornett & Flügelhorn Modell Li

Beitrag von AlfaFreak »

Thanks Bixel,

I did have the "Centennial Edition" listed but as the "YTR-8335HSGP". I'd be very greatfull if you had the time to take some photos, which I will post as reference on the spreadsheet. I hope your trumpet can help sort out the mistakes and eronious information i have collected from a very broad source base. I will post shortly which particular areas of the trumpet I would like photos of.

Regards
AlfaFreak
NormalPoster
Beiträge: 27
Registriert: Freitag 8. April 2011, 06:21
Meine Instrumente ..: Bach Philladelphia Custom
Yamaha YFH-6310Z
Yamaha YTR-9610

Re: COMPLETE Yamaha Trompete, Kornett & Flügelhorn Modell Li

Beitrag von AlfaFreak »

THe first thing I'd like to work out and establish a standard for is the classification of the various model ranges.

I have not seen any published material relating to the pre-1982 3 digit model numbers so am unsure as to how they were marketed but from the Japan site rip I can work out the following.

1xx : Standard
2xx : Standard
3xx : Standard
6xx : Professional
7xx : Professional
8xx : Custom
9xx : Custom

Does anyone have any old brochures or marketing material from this time that they are willing to sent to me or share as a .pdf?

Post-1982 with the change to the 4 digit model numbers, the marketing material suggests the following.

T-xxx : T Series (Student?)
xxx-Q : Q-Class (2005 only, Student?)
xxx-AD : Advantage (Student?)
1xxx : Standard
2xxx : Standard
3xxx : Intermediate
4xx : Intermediate (Rotary only)
4xxx : Intermediate
5xxx : Allegro (introduced 2010 - , intermediate?)
6xx : Professional (Flugel range only)
6xxx : Professional
6xxxH : Professional Heavywieght (introduced 1987, replaced by Xeno Range)
6xxxH : Maestro Range (UK Brass Band marketing, now marketed as NEO range except cornets)
6xxx : Professional Signature Series (Bob Shew, etc...)
8xx : Custom (Unique Japan only medium bore range)
8xxxH : Pre-Xeno (Custom?) (Japan only) 1986-1990
8xxxUS: Xeno I (Japan only, 1990-1994)
8xxxUSII: Xeno II (Japan only, 1994-2001
8xxx : Xeno (international model, 2001-)
8xxx : Xeno Artist Series (Chicago, New York etc. introduced 2005-)
8xxxZ : Custom Z (Bobby Shew)
9xx : Custom (Rotary only)
9xxx : Custom
9xxx : Custom Artist (Allen Vizzutti, Bergeron, etc...)

As you can see there is quite a lot of varience in the way models are described, breaking away from the Range/Key/Bore/Model number structure.

Cheers
AlfaFreak
NormalPoster
Beiträge: 27
Registriert: Freitag 8. April 2011, 06:21
Meine Instrumente ..: Bach Philladelphia Custom
Yamaha YFH-6310Z
Yamaha YTR-9610

Re: COMPLETE Yamaha Trompete, Kornett & Flügelhorn Modell Li

Beitrag von AlfaFreak »

Don't forget to check out the Photos section either.
As I collect pictures I'll make them available from the spreadsheet.

If you have photos of a particular model please feel free to email them to me at yamahacollector@gmail.com

I'm particularly after the following pictures:

1. Left View
2. Right View
3. Close up detail of the Model Number stamp.
4. Close up of any bell engraving if any
5. Close up of and Leadpipe markings/engraving.
6. General view of the case open with horn and closed if in the ORIGINAL case
7. Any other picture of things that differentiate the model from others, ie; triggers, or slide stop rod etc...
8. Place of construction stamp if any, ie; Made In Japan, Made In China etc...

Cheers
AlfaFreak
NormalPoster
Beiträge: 27
Registriert: Freitag 8. April 2011, 06:21
Meine Instrumente ..: Bach Philladelphia Custom
Yamaha YFH-6310Z
Yamaha YTR-9610

Re: COMPLETE Yamaha Trompete, Kornett & Flügelhorn Modell Li

Beitrag von AlfaFreak »

There is a copy of the Yamaha Trumpet Model number system available on the net but it was last updated in 2001 and is only Japan specific. It covers the 4 digit model numbers introduced by Yamaha in 1982. I believe it was a formalised system to begin with but as more models have been introduced it has not been able to accommodate all of the possible variations. This is my take on the system.

1st Number - Range or Grade

See my post above

2nd Number - Key or Pitch

I think this seems to be fairly well established, although the listed items in italics are more theoretical.

1 - Bb Bass (eg: YTR-916) (as only one set of custom made Bass Trumpets exist it is hard to say whether this was the intent of the the series number but it seems to make sense although doesn't fit into the 3 digit model numbers.)
2 - Eb Alto (no known Eb Alto trumpets exist but it would make sense that the number 2 was reserved for this pitch.)
3 - Bb (eg: YTR-6335)
4 - C (eg: YTR-8445)
5 - D (eg: YTR-651)
6 - Eb/D (eg: YTR-6610)
7 - G/F (eg: YTR-9710)
8 - Bb/A Piccolo (eg: YTR-6810)
9 - C Piccolo (eg: YTR-9910)


3rd Number - Bore Size

I think this was probably the intended system when the 4 digit model numbers were developed, but it just seems to dissappear in any organised form as more models have been introduced into the range. There simply isn't enough (appropriate) numbers to accomodate all the possible bores in a logical sequence. Also worth noting is the variance of measurements in the same bore sizes. I'd like to work out if this is a deliberate change of measurement made by Yamaha for speccific models or simply anj case of the original imperial measurements being changed to decimal and back again, each time changing slightly for the previous. Any thoughts or knowledge in this area? The measurements I have are as follows:

1 = Step Bore (YTR-6310Z)
2 = M (Medium) (YTR-6320)
3 = ML (Medium Large) (YTR-6335)
4 = L (Large) (eg: YTR-8445

But this doesn't have space for the S (Small) Bore or MS (Medium Small) bore, nor does it differentiate between same bore sizes, so I'll list the measurements in order and assume that the number system simply doesn't hold true anymore, other than maybe the 3 and 4 designation.

Step Bore
S = 10.50mm / xxx" (eg: YTR-6810)
MS = 11.00mm / 0.433" (eg: YFH-631)
M = 11.24mm / 0.442" (eg: YTR-946)
M = 11.25mm / 0.443" (eg: YTR-948FFMS)
M = 11.30mm / 0.445" (eg: YTR-6310)
ML = 11.65mm / 0.459" (eg: YTR-6335H)
ML = 11.68mm / xxx" (eg: YTR-4335G)
L = 11.73mm / 0.462" (eg: YCR-2310II)
L = 11.76mm / xxx" (eg: YTR-6340)
L = 11.90mm / 0.469" (eg: YCR-8335)

If anyone wants to supply me with the correct fractional imperial measurements it would be appreciated.

4th Number - Model, Version or Design Series

I'm assuming the 4th number was originally intended to designate the model or design within a particular set up. Ie: a 6335 and 6330B are both Proffesional Level, Bb, and ML bore, but the final number differentiates between the actual design of the trumpet. for example, one may or may not have a 2 piece bell vs a 1 piece bell, a gold brass vs yellow brass or even the same but with slightly different brace positions. I think that this system worked initially until model models and artists developed and this system simply ceased to work as intended. The addition of letters as described below has been introduced to help over come the limited combinations of numbers only. As far as I can tell there is no specific meaning to each number other than to differentiate one from others.

Letters

The use of letters is inconsistant so needs to be looked at individually for each model really.

S = Silver Plate. The letter "S" is used to denote Silver Plating. It is not used to denote a Small Bore even though the "Custom" range of Bb and C trumpets from 1982-85 started including the bore size in the model number similar to Bach's (eg: YTR-9330ML). Additionally, note that "S" is NOT used for ALL silver plated instruments though. It would appear that the "S" is only used when a particular model is offered in both a lacquered version and silver plate version. If a model is only available in a silver plate configuration it would appear that the "S" is not used, eg: YTR-9610. This is made more confusing as Yamaha themselves market some particular trumpets with an "S" in their marketing material but not actually stamped on the same instument, eg: the Xeno Artist Series trumpets, only available in silver plate but marketed by Yamaha as YTR-8445CHS in all of their published material. When you look at the actual instruments, they are stamped as YTR-8445CH. I guess if you are looking at purchasing a Yamaha trumpet 2nd hand you must know what configurations it was originally offered in before knowing if a particular instrument has been modified or not. Also note that there is NO denotation for a lacquered instrument. I deperately need more close up photos of model number to actually confirm what is actually being done by Yamaha.

GP = Gold Plate. The letters "GP" have been used for a very few select models offered with gold plating as the only available finish or as an option. It would appear that gold plating is available as an option from the factory through their Custom Workshop or Alteliers. Genrally, I believe that gold plating is applied over silver plating or nickel as it does not adhere to raw brass very well, and as such most gold plated Yamaha trumpets will have started life as a lacquered or silver plate version of the trumpet.

GL = Gold Lacquer. I have found one instance of this being used to denote a tinted Gold Lacquer in a range available with standard clear lacquer also. Not used anywhere else even when Gold Lacquer is used.

W = Raw Brass. The only instances of the letter W being used are on a particular range of rotary trumpets and flugel horns designed in conjunction with the Vienna Philharmonic orchestra, based on the Heckel model trumpets.

B = Black Lacquer. A few models have been released in 2010/11 as limited editions finished in Black coloured Lacquer. Used in the Yamaha saxophone range for a while but new to the trumpet range.

G = Gold Brass Bell. The letter "G" is used to denote a bell made from Gold Brass. Again, it was originally only used when a model was available in two different versions, a Gold Brass belled version and a Yellow Brass version. If the model was only available with a gold brass bell it was not used. In more recent models it appears to be used even if the model is only available with a gold brass bell, I would presume as a marketing tool by Yamaha. In the earlier 3 digit models, it appears that there is the occasional use of rose brass, a higher copper content again, but ther is no letter used to indicate this. I have not found any material to classify the percentage of copper in each of the bell materials yet, in a fashion simialr to those used by Vincent Bach on each of the individual shop cards he kept for every single trumpet. Note that this does not have any bearing on the material used in the leadpipe.

R = Reverse Construction Leadpipe. Again, this letter is only used when a model is available with both a standard or a reverse construction leadpipe. It is not used when it is only available with one or the other. There is no letter used to denote the material used to construct the leadpipe.

T = Trigger. Used to denote a mechanical trigger for either the 1st valve slide or the 3rd valve slide. It is model dependent as to which slide it is. Again, only use where the trigger is an option within a particular model range, although i think there are instances where it is used just as a marketing tool on models where it is the oonly set-up.

DT = Double Trigger. Denotes a trigger on BOTH the 1st and 3rd valve slides. It appears this has only been used once on a 6000 series of cornets before the introduction of the Maestro and Xeno range. Whilst the later cornets are supplied with double triggers the "DT" are not used.

H = Heavyweight. Denotes a heavyweight constructin of the overall trumpet. It appears the "H" designation appeared in the mide 1980's in Japan and then became international with the introduction of the "Heavyweight" 6000 range, and subsequent series II of the same range. Up until this point the Yamaha trumpet range was all medium to lightweight in a similar fashion to the Schilke range of instruments. Since the introduction of the heavyweight Xeno range the "H" designation has ceased to be used. Note that there is no letter to denote Lightweight or Medium-weight.

II = 2nd Series. The "II" indicates the 2nd development of the same model. One might descride it as an "improved" version of the same model. It is sometimes hard to pin point what the actual change / improvement is. It might be anytrhing from a change in thickness of bell material, a change of brace design to the addition of a water key.

U = ???. The letter U appears on a select few of the Japanese only models of the Xeno I and Xeno II range before it was made internationally available. I have no idea what it actually indicates or means. "Udon noodles?"

F = Fanfare. A long model trumpet for fanfare use. Sometimes marketed as "FF" but only seen as "F" stamped on the trumpet.

In addition to indicating material, construction, finsh or option, sometimes letters are used to indicate a particular Artist, Anniversary or Limited Edition model. I have found the following so far:

Q = Q-Class
AD = Advantage Range
AL = Allegro Range
M = Monel Valves

The following three letters pose some questions I haven't been able to confirm yet. I believe that the A, E and N letters used on some student model trumpets are market specific, relating only to the trumpet / case combination. I haven't seen any evidence of the letters stamped on particular trumpets.

A = ???
E = ???
N = ???


M = ??? (YTR-83M)
X = ??? (YTR-83X)
Z = Bobby Shew (YTR-6310Z) The Z originally hails from Bobby Shew's remarks that the prototype horn had a real "Zing" to the sound as well as "SiZZle"
BP = Black Phoenix (YTR-8310ZBP) Black Lacquer with special engraving of the original Yamaha Phoenix symbol.
J = James Morrison (YTR-6335J)
B = Till Bronner (YTR-6330B)
MV = Mike Vax (YTR-6335HSMV)
LA = Wayne Bergeron (YTR-8335LA) Las Angeles
V = Allen Vizzutti (YTR-9335VS)
EM = Eric Miyashiro (YTR-8340EM)
GH = Tomonao Hara (YTR-8335GH)
FFM = Frankfurt am Main (YTR-948FFMS)
CH = Chicago (YTR-8445CHS)
NY = New York (YTR-8445NYS)
UK = United Kingdom (YTR-8335RUK)
E = Europe (YTR-8445CHSE)
XV = ??? (YTR-8335RGSXV) Xeno 15th Anniversary???
20TH = Xeno 20th Anniversary Model (YTR-8335RS20TH)
AlfaFreak
NormalPoster
Beiträge: 27
Registriert: Freitag 8. April 2011, 06:21
Meine Instrumente ..: Bach Philladelphia Custom
Yamaha YFH-6310Z
Yamaha YTR-9610

Re: COMPLETE Yamaha Trompete, Kornett & Flügelhorn Modell Li

Beitrag von AlfaFreak »

I am desperate to acquire either a hard copy or even a pdf copy of any Yamaha related marketing material from before 1982.
If you have any that you are willing to share to help make this list more acurate and complete please feel free to email me at

yamahacollector@gmail.com

Thank You
Rainer H
Unverzichtbar
Beiträge: 1250
Registriert: Freitag 10. Juli 2009, 10:47
Meine Instrumente ..: .

Re: COMPLETE Yamaha Trompete, Kornett & Flügelhorn Modell Li

Beitrag von Rainer H »

Was mir aufgefallen ist, die YTR9330 in der Liste hat einen verstellbaren Fingering auf den Bildern, im Gegensatz zu meiner 9330 wo der
Fingering fest ist! gab es da verschieden Ausführungen?

Bild

Bild

Gruß Rainer
Benutzeravatar
Bixel
Unverzichtbar
Beiträge: 6415
Registriert: Samstag 27. Dezember 2008, 08:30
Meine Instrumente ..: bezahlt

Re: COMPLETE Yamaha Trompete, Kornett & Flügelhorn Modell Li

Beitrag von Bixel »

Rainer H hat geschrieben:die YTR9330 in der Liste hat einen verstellbaren Fingering auf den Bildern, im Gegensatz zu meiner 9330 wo der Fingering fest ist! gab es da verschieden Ausführungen?
An dem Horn auf den Fotos hat m.E. jemand nachträglich 'rumgebastelt.
Die Aufnahme für den Ring ist ja auch ungewöhnlich nahe an der Maschine.

In der Datenbank heißt es: "3rd slide - fixed ring"

:rtfm:
.
Rausgehen ist wie Fenster Aufmachen, nur viel krasser.
buddy
Unverzichtbar
Beiträge: 6944
Registriert: Samstag 7. April 2007, 16:50
Meine Instrumente ..: Yamaha, Kanstul, Bach

Re: COMPLETE Yamaha Trompete, Kornett & Flügelhorn Modell Li

Beitrag von buddy »

Das könnte man einmal bei verschiedenen Trompeten messen, bei meiner Bach und den beiden Kanstul Trompeten sitzt der Fingerring immer etwas verschieden weit im Abstand zum dritten Ventilzylinder, ganz ohne Basteleien.

Bild
Benutzeravatar
Bixel
Unverzichtbar
Beiträge: 6415
Registriert: Samstag 27. Dezember 2008, 08:30
Meine Instrumente ..: bezahlt

Re: COMPLETE Yamaha Trompete, Kornett & Flügelhorn Modell Li

Beitrag von Bixel »

buddy hat geschrieben:Das könnte man einmal bei verschiedenen Trompeten messen, bei meiner Bach und den beiden Kanstul Trompeten sitzt der Fingerring auch etwas verschieden weit im Abstand zum dritten Ventilzylinder, ganz ohne Basteleien.
Ja, das könnte man natürlich.

Der Sinn eines verstellbaren Fingerringes am dritten Ventilzug ist vermutlich doch seine Verstellbarkeit.
Bei der in Rede stehenden Trompete hat man m.E. Einiges an Variabilität der Einstellung verschenkt.
Normalerweise sitzt die Aufnahme der Schubstange doch einige Zentimeter weiter in Richtung Bell, oder täusche ich mich?
Daher jedenfalls kam meine Annahme, dieses Horn sei "verbastelt" worden.

:o
.
Rausgehen ist wie Fenster Aufmachen, nur viel krasser.
buddy
Unverzichtbar
Beiträge: 6944
Registriert: Samstag 7. April 2007, 16:50
Meine Instrumente ..: Yamaha, Kanstul, Bach

Re: COMPLETE Yamaha Trompete, Kornett & Flügelhorn Modell Li

Beitrag von buddy »

Stimmt, das sieht definitv "verbastelt" aus, der zylindernahe Rand des Rings ragt in "Grundstellung" bis zum Übergang dritter Zug - Ohr.

Die Original Ytr-9330 hat ursprünglich einen feststehenden Fingerring, hier auf dem Bild links bei der Large-Bore Version YTR-9340L in meinem Yamaha-Custom-Prospekt aus den 80ern, rechts daneben der verstellbare Fingerring bei einer aktuellen Yamaha YTR-2335S. Die Halterung sitzt im vorderen Drittel des Zuges:
Bild Bild
Benutzeravatar
JohnD
ExtremPoster
Beiträge: 325
Registriert: Dienstag 8. März 2005, 11:51
Meine Instrumente ..: King Silver Flair 1055T Trompete
Bach LT42B Posaune
Hüttl Sousaphon Bj. 1971
Wohnort: Barsinghausen
Kontaktdaten:

Re: COMPLETE Yamaha Trompete, Kornett & Flügelhorn Modell Li

Beitrag von JohnD »

Alfa, thanks for the list, nice job.

I used to own a 1998 model YTR-6345HIIS, which doesn't show up in the list. Obviously, large bore silver, heavy, Mark II, thus predecessor of the 8345 (Xeno?)Series. Sold it years ago, a quality horn for sure, but I preferred the Silver Flair 1055T: Same bore size, but considered as a lightweight horn.

Thanks again,



J.
Bild Esst mehr Obst !
AlfaFreak
NormalPoster
Beiträge: 27
Registriert: Freitag 8. April 2011, 06:21
Meine Instrumente ..: Bach Philladelphia Custom
Yamaha YFH-6310Z
Yamaha YTR-9610

Re: COMPLETE Yamaha Trompete, Kornett & Flügelhorn Modell Li

Beitrag von AlfaFreak »

More trumpets and photos added:

YTR-6335GP Limited Centennial Edition
YTR-6345H I & II in all variations.

As you can see in Yamaha Brochure W-120 above, the YTR-6345H was never marketed in Australia so it is appriciated that any missing models are brought to my attention.

Corrections on the photos of the YTR-9330ML have been added to show the incorrect 3rd slide ring.

Regards
AlfaFreak
NormalPoster
Beiträge: 27
Registriert: Freitag 8. April 2011, 06:21
Meine Instrumente ..: Bach Philladelphia Custom
Yamaha YFH-6310Z
Yamaha YTR-9610

Re: COMPLETE Yamaha Trompete, Kornett & Flügelhorn Modell Li

Beitrag von AlfaFreak »

In Bezug auf die Fotos der YTR-9330ML. Ich kopierte die Fotos, die ich von einem Verkäufer bei eBay hatte und er tat beachten Sie, dass die Trompete verändert wurden.
Antworten

Wer ist online?

Mitglieder in diesem Forum: Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot] und 34 Gäste